An interesting interview about the Azores and the economic prospects of the islands with economist Gualter Câmara who tells us that “2024 will be a year of internal readjustments for families. We will see a very difficult first half of the year in the region, with families trying to recover what they can and cut back on what they can.”

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Correio dos Açores – What has your career path been like so far?
Gualter Câmara (Professor of Economics and Management at the University of the Azores): I’ve had concrete goals of building something since my university days. To be able to contribute to the economy and also, to be completely honest, to get rich from it, I think that’s a goal. When I entered the University of the Azores, I had only intended to study for a degree, but I grew to love reading and acquiring more skills and specializations. So, it made sense for me to progress to a master’s degree and then a doctorate. While studying, I worked for a leading consultancy firm in the region; in other words, I learned and operated simultaneously.
While studying for my master’s degree, I thought I could pursue a career as a lecturer at the University. This interest was reinforced during my doctorate, and I wrote research articles, specifically in economics and tourism.
As Elon Musk said, “You’re not going to change the world by working eight hours a day,” I always thought of cultivating and wanting something more. I’ve always tried to work in various areas: I created my own project company, and I had a brief spell at the Ponta Delgada Football Association as a manager. Then, I went into tourism, a wholly different and critical area in the Azores. I spent time at Santa Clara working on the structure; I also worked at EDA on the financial side, which is my area of specialization, and, finally, I went to University, where, as well as being a professor, I am the coordinator of the Erasmus program. At the same time, I’m an investor in a real estate company in the region.
As an economist, I believe that our investment in ourselves always brings a return, which can be greater or lesser depending on the intensity of our work.

“We always want to do something more for our islands…”

You have projects that don’t have much to do with each other. Is it true that you’ve always looked for different areas to contribute to the region’s economy in various ways?
As Azoreans, we always want to do more for our land. The challenge for our generation and all generations is to do better than their parents did. Whether in politics, the economy, or any other area. This is the ambition, and we will always want our children to progress more than we have. In this way, we end up being part of the region’s development process. It’s almost arrogant to say that my contribution has an impact, but the truth is that if everyone contributes on their own scale and to the extent that they can, we’ll all be contributing to a general improvement.
The truth is that I have gradually made my contribution, in terms of my know-how, as an economist and manager (I have this skill), and the truth is that the businesses, despite being from different areas, end up being complementary. Our contribution on our own scale will undoubtedly make it possible to improve this land we love and how we see the Azores in the future.

Is investing abroad a possibility for you?

No, I’m more in favor of channeling foreign investment to the Azores. I’ve had the opportunity to work outside the Azores, and I’ve always preferred to stay here. I’ve managed to have a career in the region, where I’ve also raised a family and have a job. So I’m more pro-Azores than going abroad.

As an economist and investor, do you think that the political instability in the region can have an impact on the economy?
It always has an impact. The fall of any government always gives rise to some uncertainty and expectation. The truth is that investors really value stability, something that the European Union has managed to guarantee. There are more unstable countries, and investors are taking their investments out of those places because of the uncertainty. Political instability always causes frustration and inconvenience for investors. Investors don’t know what will change, whether it’s a change in taxation or fiscal policy.
I know that we are in an autonomous region, and this has its constraints. Still, we really need to clear up this instability scenario quickly so that we can protect everyone’s interests and that entrepreneurs understand where they are investing, how they are investing, and what the government’s guarantees are.

Do you agree, then, that it is difficult for entrepreneurs to invest in the Azores in this period of instability?
Not wanting to delve too deeply into the political issue, let’s talk in more abstract terms. A region like the Azores lives a lot on accessibility. The truth is that accessibility policy, such as liberalizing or making the market more difficult, affects what tourism is and will be in the coming years. To put it another way, if there was a paradigm shift tomorrow and there was, for example, a conditionality in the liberalization of airlines, the entrepreneurs who have invested so far and those who could invest in the future, particularly in tourism and complementary areas, would feel frustrated and that policy would not be fair. That’s also why this political instability is everything that investors and entrepreneurs don’t want.

If you had to choose the biggest challenge you’ve faced in your career, which would you choose?
It’s difficult because I prefer to take the first step forward and then see what we’ve achieved. I wouldn’t say I’m always looking for a new challenge. I’m delighted to be a lecturer at the University of the Azores, and it’s the fulfillment of several challenges. As internal career challenges, it will be more in terms of research.
I think a lot can be done in terms of research. It’s often difficult to understand which path to take. That’s the challenge everyone has to face: which area should you bet on? And since there’s no crystal ball to guess the future, you’re always in doubt. The advice I give, especially to younger people, is that we must first believe in ourselves and the opportunities that come our way. Some trains only pass once a lifetime, and we must determine if this is the right train. And we can’t give too much importance to mistakes. Mistakes are part of the process, and we must believe in ourselves to overcome the challenges.

Some secondary schools are complaining about the lack of students. Is the same happening at the University of the Azores?
The question here is that we have to know our students. If we were talking about an entrepreneur, he has to know his market. What I see, on a personal level, is a growing distance between students and mathematics. The truth is that students in Portugal, and particularly in the Azores, don’t do well in mathematics. This affects some courses, such as economics, where the entrance exam is mathematics. We need to know how we can tackle the problem of mathematics, whether it’s a pedagogical issue or a question of syllabus content, and how we can resolve this issue because mathematics is fundamental. As well as being present in various fields of science, it allows us to formulate a question and solve a problem. If we take math away from students, in a way, we take away their ability to reason, which will be needed sooner or later.
The number of students has been falling, particularly in courses that require mathematics, and this problem can’t be solved at University because this is already a consequence of something that wasn’t cracked before, something that should have been solved at the elementary and secondary school levels.

What would be the best way to solve this problem?
In my opinion, there would have to be a working group, someone to think about this issue at a national level. An active group of teachers, parents, and many agents representing different sectors so that we can understand, from the outset, whether what is being done in mathematics in Portugal, in terms of content, is very different from what is being done in other countries. Sometimes, we teach seventh-grade content that would only be absorbed in ninth grade for example. Trying to pinpoint countries that could be the drivers, everything that is done in Europe, and then looking at those that are closer to us, for example, Spain, and understanding what is done there in terms of mathematics.
Then, to understand how we should approach these issues with students, whether mathematics will become more virtual, more interactive, and, instead of seeing a triangle or a prism on paper, maybe we should try to computerize mathematics. Because if we look at it, the future jobs in this area include programming, computer science, and management, all of which involve mathematics.

Real estate market: “We see many foreigners coming here, and it looks like they’re all looking at what’s for sale.”

As a real estate investor, do you think house prices in the Azores are inflated?
It’s a very relevant and topical issue, and I have my own take on it. Prices are high, that’s a fact. But what are they high compared to? If we compare them to the remuneration of the region, they are very high. If you sell your house in Ponta Delgada, you won’t live in Ponta Delgada again because prices are rising. But if we say, “Yes, we’re in the Azores where space is limited, and if we compare it to Hawaii, it’s not the same. But if you consider that they are both volcanic regions and paradise islands, maybe the prices are low.
We see a lot of foreigners coming here, and it seems like they’re looking at what is for sale, which means they’re paying what they’re asking for. Whether expensive or cheap, we must see who our market is. I believe that the value of the Azores is much higher than what real estate agents are asking for. Now, if we look at it from the perspective that housing is not for business but to accommodate families, then the value is quite expensive. We’re talking about prices of around three thousand euros per square meter, which is far too high. It’s still not at Lisbon’s level, but it’s high. It’s very tough for a young family to buy a house.

“The market price in the Azores is high, but it’s high because there is business…”

Many people talk about a bubble in the real estate market that’s about to burst. Will it happen anytime soon?
The question of a bubble is always a business risk. The business risk is knowing whether we’re investing at times when prices are high or low. From the point of view of those buying, whether for housing or not, it’s always an investment.
For better or for worse, the Azores are always lagging behind in terms of the effects or impacts of policies and measures. On the mainland, we are already seeing a slowdown and a price drop in some places. Oporto and Lisbon in particular. What is happening on the continent, and what will indeed happen in the region, is this: Those who want to invest three or four thousand euros a board meter in Lisbon and can’t invest in Oeiras, Santarém and, therefore, in the surrounding area. I believe that the Azores will be appealing when the price is prohibitive in some areas of the continent. This dynamic won’t lead to a slowdown in prices just yet.
On the other hand, what we see is that the market price is when there is a buyer who sets a price, and there is a seller who pays that price; in other words, the market price in the Azores is high, but it is elevated to the extent that there is business, there is a transaction. Whether prices will fall or not is a question of several things; there’s the question of whether you choose the second or third alternative if you can’t get the first location.
Regarding real estate, foreign investment in the Azores has an effect that is entirely unaffected by income and prices in the region. I can give you the example of Paris, where the price per square meter is 20,000 euros, so a Parisian who comes here and sees prices at two or three thousand euros has access to a paradise destination, which seems like a good deal. So there’s the effect of foreign investment that doesn’t let prices fall. Still, on the other hand, the relevant question is this: To what extent will families be able to pay very high installments and maintain high prices without being able to. It turns out that residents aren’t managing to buy homes, and families are getting squeezed.
The truth is that prices will have to fall in the real estate sector. Here, we have a combination of effects: firstly, the impact of foreign investment, which isn’t allowing prices to fall, so the market price is working; secondly, the pressure on families to sell their homes quickly to avoid a scenario of insolvency. With this combination of effects, we’ll soon see what happens.
I believe 2024 will be a year of internal readjustments for families. We will see a challenging first half of the year in the region, with families trying to recover what they can and cut back on what they can. Some are already devastated and will have to sell their homes and do the best they can.
On the other hand, there’s the issue that the Azores are becoming better known. Less than a month ago, we won an award as the most sustainable destination in the world, so all this contributes to the price going up. Therefore, we can conclude that prices will remain the same and may rise in the high season.
It’s still difficult to predict 2025, but I don’t think real estate prices will slow down.

Frederico Figueiredo is a journalist for Correio dos Açores, Nartalino Viveiros, director.

Translated to English as a community outreach program from the Portuguese Beyond Borders Institute (PBBI) and the Modern and Classical Languages and Cultures Department (MCLL) as part of Bruma Publication and ADMA (Azores-Diaspora Media Alliance)  at California State University, Fresno–PBBI thanks the sponsorship of the Luso-American Development Foundation from Lisbon, Portugal (FLAD)